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Super Mario 64

Sick New Footrace With Koopa The Quick Strategy

ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/5/2007 12:28:02 AM | message detail
There it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2TdjySQTe0

I took the old warp footrace method and used to wing cap to make two major adjustments.

First, the triple jump dive off of the white marble slope on to the beginning of the mountain path. I talked to Curtis about this a long time ago. Both of us already knew it was possible to do this before the conversation and agreed that a cannonless footrace world record should be added to his website. I don't think either of us expected it to be faster than the cannon world record though...

Second, the flight to the top of the mountain. Instead of using the slow warp, I simply triple jumped to fly to the top as you can see. Mario has just enough altitude to make it up there.

Myles
Brightguy | Posted 7/5/2007 4:30:31 AM | message detail
Myles... you do it again.

Yeah, I was planning on setting up a ranking for the various races like at N64HS, except having two categories for Koopa 1: with the cannon and cannonless. I guess now I'll have to switch that to with the wing cap and capless.

Did you find this because you were trying the cyberscore (cannonless) rules? I always knew that the cyberscore times could be improved using the wing cap, but, being lazy, never set a good time. I remember looking for places where you could use the wing cap to fly up the mountain, and I thought the most promising spot was by the spinning heart; I think I did it somewhere by the warp but I can't remember exactly. In any case, I never dreamed you would be able to beat the time with the cannon!

Landing on the ground with the wing cap seems a little slow; the quickest way to stop flying is to lose the wing cap entirely. I bet it would it be faster to time it so that the wing cap runs out just as you make it to the top. This would certainly make an already difficult strategy quite maddening I'm sure!

It seems you never stop coming up with new strategies for this game. Heh, how many are we up to now?
mr_roberts_z | Posted 7/5/2007 10:06:08 AM | message detail
*jaw drops*

Woah.
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kirbymuncher | Posted 7/5/2007 10:14:29 AM | message detail
Awesome.
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LightningYoshi | Posted 7/5/2007 11:08:47 AM | message detail
Amazing.
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ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/5/2007 12:43:46 PM | message detail
Thanks fellas :-)

I have no idea how many discoveries I've made lol. I lost count a long time ago, but I'll keep searching anyway.

You're right Curtis about having the wing cap expire right when I reach the top of the mountain. I would estimate that I have to start the race about 45 seconds after acquiring the cap, but I'm sure that isn't completely accurate. We'll have to use our software to study this race frame by frame and find the precise time to start the race. I'm pretty sure the wing cap lasts exactly one minute. I can test this to confirm it. It'd be crazy if 14"9 is possible with this strategy.

Yes, I was trying to smash the cyberscore WR, and I did ;-)

I heard people saying that the 17"9 pogostick time was probably going to be removed, so I thought it'd be cool to get a time way faster than his and prove my time. At first, I was just using the triple jump dive on the white slope with the warp later on. The potential of that method seems to be about 16"8 or so. But then, I tried flying to the top of the mountain and got a 16"3 with a bad error, so I could see just how big of a discovery this was going to be.

Myles
Filimonas | Posted 7/5/2007 1:34:09 PM | message detail
Great job Myles!
ameba2 | Posted 7/5/2007 5:12:58 PM | message detail
Amazing! Keep up the good work Myles!
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TheFrigz | Posted 7/5/2007 8:31:43 PM | message detail
Way to go Myles! The discoveries keep on coming, haha.
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Wouter Jansen | Posted 7/6/2007 11:52:01 AM | message detail
nice to see new stuff from you Myles!

I want to ask both Myles & Curtis: Did you guys change your AIM screennames? I haven't catch either of you online for what it seems like ages.
Brightguy | Posted 7/6/2007 1:11:19 PM | message detail
It's still curtisbright1, but I'm only on occasionally.
ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/6/2007 2:57:32 PM | message detail
Thanks Wouter :-)

I've been busy with school and work lately. Right now I have enough time to do the star time competition, video quiz, and play this game a bit, but that's about it. If you want, you could use www.vixy.net or another similar website to download all my YouTube vids. For now though, I'm just taking care of business so I probably won't be available on AIM/MSN for a while.

Myles
nesrocksFODA | Posted 7/6/2007 3:59:41 PM | message detail
whoa, that was unexpected
zDonKEY_K0ngz | Posted 7/6/2007 7:22:53 PM | message detail
Nice.
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Wouter Jansen | Posted 7/6/2007 10:01:05 PM | message detail
thanks for the quick replies =) yeah it's always nice to talk some SM64 so I wouldn't mind seeing you guys come on aim again ;) I'll just wait till then and get the vids off you, much easier than using that website and it will be the original videos, which I much prefer. when they are uploaded to youtube they are converted to flv and then you need to convert it "back" with some other website.. it's extra work to do and it loses quality due to 2 convertions. so I'll just wait patiently ;)

keep up the good job though!

Wouter
Nameless92415 | Posted 7/7/2007 12:38:38 PM | message detail
Phenomenal.
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ShadowMario3 | Posted 7/7/2007 10:15:59 PM | message detail
Nice job Myles! Keep up the great work!
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Brightguy | Posted 7/8/2007 4:45:43 PM | message detail
Oh, and Myles, I think you said you had 15"9 with the old strategy? Thiago said he had 15"8, but I'm not sure if he did anything different.
ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/8/2007 5:05:29 PM | message detail
Yes, I got 15"9. That's the best I could do. I kept tying it over and over and I couldn't see any room for improvement.

It'd be interesting to see how Thiago did it. He must know something that I do not.

Myles
The Great Onion Kid | Posted 7/8/2007 9:15:02 PM | message detail
Great job Myles!

I've been trying to duplicate it (the strategy), but can't seem to even get that inital jump up to the ledge timed right, let alone have a chance at pulling off the Triple Jump in the heat of the moment during the race.

Does anyone know how much time it takes according to Koopa's timer to perform one long jump? I recently had 15.8 second race against Koopa using the Cannon strategy, but ended up accidentally using a one longjump head start. I'm just curious what my time might've been, had it not been for that.
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Brightguy | Posted 7/8/2007 11:37:57 PM | message detail
Judging from my 16"0 video, every long jump takes about 1 second.

Now, of course I have to update my records page with this new improvement, but I'm thinking about changing the format so that it's more like the fastest star times. I can also put up a page that ranks the times of everyone who wants to participate. The problem now is deciding which races to include, since there are now quite a few variations. I'll have a page that lists every variation and their times, but so that we don't bog people down there should be a few core races as well. I'm thinking:

Koopa 1: with and without cap
Koopa 2: the shell route, the normal "old" route
Slide: with and without shortcut

The "old" Koopa 2 is an interesting one, since it hasn't been played competitively ever since Myles started using the Fly Guy (and he has since found that you don't even need the Fly Guy for the alternative route to be faster). Alex and I have 15"6 from years ago; I wonder how much lower it can go.
The Great Onion Kid | Posted 7/10/2007 1:40:50 PM | message detail
1 second for each long jump? I haven't analyzde any videos, but I would've thought it'd be much less, somewhere around 4 or 5 tenths of a second, unless the Koopa Timer goes quicker than actual time.

Speaking of Koopa 2 though, it there any trick to making the Fly Guy get into the neccessary position, or does it just boil down to being patient and waiting for him?
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ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/11/2007 11:33:52 AM | message detail
Lol, N64HS was updated yesterday and it says that I have 15"9 for Footrace. I'll have to send this again...

Myles
AlexPenev | Posted 7/11/2007 11:41:01 AM | message detail
I don't think waiting for him will get you very far. Go down there and use Mario as bait.
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ballaholic11 | Posted 7/11/2007 2:01:56 PM | message detail
holy **** dude that was insane. o mammoth. WOW awesome
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Brightguy | Posted 7/11/2007 2:43:03 PM | message detail
1 second for each long jump? I haven't analyzde any videos, but I would've thought it'd be much less, somewhere around 4 or 5 tenths of a second, unless the Koopa Timer goes quicker than actual time.

On NTSC the timer runs in real time (assuming no slowdown). Try a long jump with the timer on, it takes approximately 1 second from start to finish.

Speaking of Koopa 2 though, it there any trick to making the Fly Guy get into the necessary position, or does it just boil down to being patient and waiting for him?

From what I remember, it was pretty annoying. Although a while ago Myles made a video showing he positions the Fly Guy and I haven't tried it since then, so maybe I need to give it another chance. Maybe my memories of the Fly Guy strategy is part of the reason I want to try the old way again... Anyway, I can upload Myles' video or he can put it on YouTube if he wants.

I don't think waiting for him will get you very far. Go down there and use Mario as bait.

Haha, for a minute there I thought you were telling Myles to go to H64HS headquarters.
The Great Onion Kid | Posted 7/11/2007 4:15:21 PM | message detail
Maybe the reason it seems so much quicker is that when I'm running it, I'm in the moment and not thinking about how much time has elapsed. In hindsight, it makes sense considering the time on the timer when I usually get to the Cannon and the number of long jumps it takes to get there.

Hopefully uploading the video won't be neccessary if I put in a bit of work at running around on the beach and knowing roughly where he should end up coming to a rest. If it's as annoying as you remember though, I'd be grateful not to have to rely completely on Trial and Error beach-running. All I have to go by right now is Myles' 13.0 second video from your site, which briefly shows the correct end position of the Fly Guy.
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ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/11/2007 5:43:05 PM | message detail
"I don't think waiting for him will get you very far. Go down there and use Mario as bait.

Haha, for a minute there I thought you were telling Myles to go to H64HS headquarters."

Yeah, I thought the same thing lol.

Great Onion Kid:

Stand on the beach under where the fly guy is positioned in my vid. When he dives at you, immediately run up to the area with two yellow coins. Press C-up and look to see if the fly guy is in the right place. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it shouldn't take long at all once you get the hang of it.

Myles
The Great Onion Kid | Posted 7/11/2007 6:59:14 PM | message detail
Great, thanks Myles. Now that you mention the "when he dives at you" part, I think I vaguely remember the post (or at least the topic) Curtis was talking about that had the video illustrating how to lure him over.

By the way, you're not alone in having to email N64HS back about the latest update. It looks like the wrong Total Coins score of mine was updated yesterday.
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ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/11/2007 8:09:31 PM | message detail
Lol, Harvey must be in a hurry or something these days. He can fix it next update though, no problem.

And I'll have to play PSS 80 coins again since the nils guy has 20"3. I wonder if he has a vid.

Myles
Skullkrusher | Posted 7/13/2007 10:39:32 AM | message detail
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AlexPenev | Posted 7/15/2007 4:22:42 AM | message detail
Hurry up and get 14, Myles. You can't leave your strategy unfinished!
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J_Seigal | Posted 7/15/2007 5:34:56 AM | message detail
That was crazy
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Swordless Link | Posted 7/15/2007 7:50:10 AM | message detail
Congratulations, Myles. =)

I did some testing, and with TAS, I got 14'0. Video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XqFJ2MKtzz8#GU5U2spHI_4

If the wall kick timing could be mastered, then it shouldn't be too hard to get that time on a console. Good luck to anyone who tries.
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AlexPenev | Posted 7/15/2007 12:53:57 PM | message detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
AlexPenev | Posted 7/15/2007 1:12:03 PM | message detail
14'0? You're not quite doing it right. Not quite right as in... the time you show in that TAS isn't very useful for us to know since it's a mix of 2 different challenges.

The text glitch is traditionally/historically considered cheating. You should only talk to Koopa within his "circle", so using it is no good. But I think you saved 0.5 off it, so it's safe to say that your TAS would've been 14'5. The extra big thing you need to do is expire the wingcap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-pqqVnCx6g). I have 14'7 (n64) and I'm pretty sure it's humanly possible to go 14'4, which would match the 14'5 you just showed us. But your run didn't use the wing cap glitch, which should save quite a bit. I reckon you'd get about 13.5 TAS without using the text glitch.

If the text glitch were allowed, then we're dealing with a case of "fastest time for Koopa to still give you the star", so there's no reason to simply do a long jump. Do something that gets you further away? You can go up to around the pivot bridge. Any further and Koopa will disappear and not run the race, therefore no star.
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AlexPenev | Posted 7/15/2007 1:13:26 PM | message detail
"wing cap glitch" -> wing cap trick. </hey it's 3 am>
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ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/18/2007 7:39:57 AM | message detail
Man, what's up with these Harvey comments?:

http://www.geocities.com/n64highscores/

"Take that, Myles Bukrim!"

http://www.geocities.com/n64highscores/SuperMario64.html

"while Alex Penev is out to show everyone (that means you, Myles!) what a REAL record time is on Footrace With Koopa the Quick! And oh, how the mighty have fallen..."

What's up with this? What's Harvey got against me? What'd I ever do to him?

Myles
Swordless Link | Posted 7/18/2007 10:33:18 AM | message detail
"while Alex Penev is out to show everyone (that means you, Myles!) what a REAL record time is on Footrace With Koopa the Quick! And oh, how the mighty have fallen..."

...*laugh*
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Brightguy | Posted 7/18/2007 11:09:51 AM | message detail
What's Harvey got against me? What'd I ever do to him?

Right here:
Myles Bukrim 15"6
Nicholas Harvey 17"3

But seriously, I think his comments were meant as tongue-in-cheek. And probably the reason he got so excited was because it's not very often that a WR like this broken by such a margin (I believe this is the largest drop since you first used your Koopa 2 Fly Guy strategy 4 years ago). Plus, it's probably one of the oldest scores recorded by N64HS and it has always been improved on in small increments.

So, while your 15"6 video was a lot more revolutionary, it didn't drop the WR time very much. As it turns out, the wing cap trick does help significantly, and leads to a much more impressive time compared to the old times. Besides, we all know you're going to beat it again. >_>

Excellent work that you pulled it off so soon, Alex! I thought it would take a lot longer to nail down the timing exactly. (You even beat the TAS players!) The race preparation must be quite annoying...
AlexPenev | Posted 7/18/2007 11:54:28 AM | message detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
AlexPenev | Posted 7/19/2007 7:04:59 AM | message detail
Myles: I also think it's tongue-in-cheek. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that it was your strategy and that you had missed something at the end. I also told him sub-16 with the old route was harder than sub-15 with this one, so he was probably expecting a 14'5 to come in and you disappointed him =)

>The race preparation must be quite annoying...
I have to sit around for 50-odd seconds with nothing to do. I just muck around during that time. Apparently Mario can belly-flop from the bridge (near the wing cap) all the way to the two signs (near Koopa) without touching the ground. =D
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ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/19/2007 9:27:14 AM | message detail
Lol, yeah he probably was joking now that I think about it.

You can have the WR for a little while Alex. I'll get around to this later on.

Myles
Brightguy | Posted 7/28/2007 12:18:04 PM | message detail
It's too early for this topic to die! I suppose a long-term goal would be to set up a SM64 forum which avoids purging topics like this.

Lol, Harvey must be in a hurry or something these days.

I don't know how he stands updating N64HS manually. I had one ranking page to update and it was still tedious to update on a semi-regular basis. I wonder if he's ever considered automating the process? Granted it would be a bit of a pain to get the system started (parsing through all the current data in the site and so on), but if it was me I'd definitely find it worthwhile.
ameba2 | Posted 7/28/2007 2:15:09 PM | message detail
Originally posted by Brightguy:
It's too early for this topic to die! I suppose a long-term goal would be to set up a SM64 forum which avoids purging topics like this.

I think that making a SM64 forum is a nice idea! We should create a free forum and link it to sm64.com. This way we can have the topics in a more organized way, and we shouldn't worry about hitting 500 posts or avoiding topic purges. What do you think? Of course, there might be people that are used to GameFAQs and that might not want to change forums... Anyway, if people agree I can help to make a new forum exclusively for SM64. =D
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mr_roberts_z | Posted 7/28/2007 2:21:17 PM | message detail
I think that making a SM64 forum is a nice idea! We should create a free forum and link it to sm64.com. This way we can have the topics in a more organized way, and we shouldn't worry about hitting 500 posts or avoiding topic purges. What do you think? Of course, there might be people that are used to GameFAQs and that might not want to change forums... Anyway, if people agree I can help to make a new forum exclusively for SM64. =D

That's a really good idea; you guys should go for it.
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Chrisjh0223 | Posted 7/28/2007 2:34:46 PM | message detail
I agree, that SM64 forum idea sounds great. You could archive every single good topic from here there, including glitches topics, star competition topics, and even that topic TaiTroyLeonTorn started about the basement BLJ glitch. And there would be no worry about purges.
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SoulRivers | Posted 7/28/2007 2:38:55 PM | message detail
Gogo!
mr_roberts_z | Posted 7/28/2007 3:03:03 PM | message detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
ameba2 | Posted 7/28/2007 5:46:25 PM | message detail
I just finished creating this forum:

http://sm64.ipbfree.com/

What do you think about it? Remember that it's still in beta form, so many things can be added or deleted.
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mr_roberts_z | Posted 7/28/2007 6:25:00 PM | message detail
I think the layout and subforums look great!

I was thinking of something like a free site like that (or another page on Curtis's site, if he wanted), with the phpBB forum style, and with basically the same kind of subforums/categories as Ameba's. But whatever people use, I'll use too; any SM64 forum sounds like a good idea =P.
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ameba2 | Posted 7/28/2007 6:34:11 PM | message detail
I guess I can do another forum with the phpBB style, if people like it more than Invision. BTW, did you have other subforums or categories in mind, mr_robert_z? I would like to hear more ideas about this. =D
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Brightguy | Posted 7/28/2007 6:46:40 PM | message detail
It should be an interesting experiment to see how well it works. GameFAQs does lack some standard features (like hotlinking and quoting) which makes it a little annoying to use.

My plan was to eventually (if there was enough interest) to set up some kind of a forum integrated with sm64.com (maybe using something like phpBB). Or some kind of a comment system, or a system to submit tricks and stuff. Also, for the star times competition, I could make a automated submission process, though right now there doesn't seem to be much need. I would also probably need to find a more dedicated host for the site...

By the way, when archiving topics from GameFAQs (my archive needs to be updated...) is it ok to still use the classic layout, or does it make more sense to use the new one?
mr_roberts_z | Posted 7/28/2007 6:49:37 PM | message detail
guess I can do another forum with the phpBB style

Hurray! phpBB FTW. As for different categories, maybe one devoted to TAS. :P Aside from that, I'd say you pretty much got the necessary ones.
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ameba2 | Posted 7/28/2007 6:57:55 PM | message detail
My plan was to eventually (if there was enough interest) to set up some kind of a forum integrated with sm64.com (maybe using something like phpBB).

Sounds like a great idea! The forum I created can be used as an experiment to see if there's enough interest in this. If everything goes well, then your idea can be applied and we can move to your forum! I hope this works.

By the way, when archiving topics from GameFAQs (my archive needs to be updated...) is it ok to still use the classic layout, or does it make more sense to use the new one?

I think it makes more sense to use the new layout. What happened to "Secrets of SM64" parts 5 and 6? O_o
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Brightguy | Posted 7/28/2007 7:50:13 PM | message detail
Of course, I wasn't planning on setting it up anytime soon (as usual) since GameFAQs seems to be working good enough... but looking at the forum categories that you made, it does seem like it would keep things better organized.

I think it makes more sense to use the new layout.

Does anyone else find the new layout ugly? >_> Anyway, I archived Part 5 a long time ago (in the old format) but never bothered putting it up since it was stickied (until one day when it mysteriously disappeared...) and I saved Part 6 in both old and new style.
ShadowOfMyles | Posted 7/29/2007 10:45:50 AM | message detail
Wow this is awesome guys! :-)

Good work ameba!

Myles
Swordless Link | Posted 7/29/2007 11:37:38 AM | message detail
Curtis, DO NOT use the new layout. It looks horrible. If you can still access gfaqs9, archive them in that. If not, do whatever you have to to make it be in the classic layout. <_<
ameba2 | Posted 7/29/2007 5:23:22 PM | message detail
I don't think the new layout is ugly, and I've already get used to it, but that's just me. =S

In the "new forum", SM64Parkour posted about getting every topic from GameFAQs to be created there. I totally agree with this idea, since this would be a great start for this experimental project. Should I (or somebody else) create a new topic here explaining the situation?
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mr_roberts_z | Posted 7/29/2007 5:33:41 PM | message detail
It sounds kind of like an automated system where every thread/message from the GFAQs SM64 board would be copied into the new forum. If the person on GFAQs hasn't registered in the "new forum", the new forum would just copy his name and just mark him as "GameFAQs user".

If that's kind of the idea, it sounds excellent, if it's possible to create/program it.
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ameba2 | Posted 7/29/2007 6:01:13 PM | message detail
Actually I was thinking of doing it manually. =P I've no idea if there's such a program, but I don't think so...
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